(17 October 2000, interview with PSB, On keeping corporate influence in check),
"I don't think anybody, even for a moment, suggested you shouldn't be able to buy a cheap bar of soap in one shop against another that's more expensive. That's not the point. It's corporate power that it's about. I mean, the political power of a big corporation -- I've dealt with them all my life. I mean, I was the energy minister, so I used to deal with the oil companies. And Esso once came to me and said, "We're not working with you because you're of a different political philosophy." So I said, "Thank you very much," and they went out. I had all the North Sea oil and I had to allocate it, so I didn't give any to Esso. They came back a year later, and they were on their knees. Amoco wouldn't cooperate, so they didn't get any more North Sea oil, so they sacked their top management and came back and got it [from me]. I mean, we're much more powerful in dealing with big corporations than anyone believes. I remember IBM tried to cancel out our devaluation of the pound by raising the price of all their goods. So I put pressure on them, and they had to capitulate. But you've got to fight for the people you elect."